Random Political Thread

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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby dun dun dun... chips » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:06 pm

Bacon wrote:goes both ways

isnt two groups being angry about being unjustly persecuted while persecuting the other fun?

this is why i have great respect for those who live by the live-and-let-live mantra. wisdom.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Darkfoxx » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:44 pm

dun dun dun... chips wrote:isnt two groups being angry about being unjustly persecuted while persecuting the other fun?

this is why i have great respect for those who live by the live-and-let-live mantra. wisdom.

Amen brother.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Harness » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:34 pm

dun dun dun... chips wrote:
Bacon wrote:goes both ways

isnt two groups being angry about being unjustly persecuted while persecuting the other fun?

this is why i have great respect for those who live by the live-and-let-live mantra. wisdom.



“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”― Thomas Jefferson

Edit* (for some form of substance)
I know, I'm starting on religion when I likely shouldn't be but I had a long discussion with someone in work today about Christianity and it's influence on our government. I'm spilling it over in here.

Chips, I would agree with your statement if our nations moto wasn't "in god we trust". Christianity needs to be removed from government and there no weapons one can use other then words.
Last edited by Harness on Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Jif » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:47 pm

Incomes Have Dropped Twice as Much During the 'Recovery' as During the Recession
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/inc ... 50068.html

I'll let that sink in for a minute...

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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Harness » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:08 pm

Jif wrote:Incomes Have Dropped Twice as Much During the 'Recovery' as During the Recession
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/inc ... 50068.html

I'll let that sink in for a minute...



Does this surprise you? Red states are slashing taxes to create minimum wadge jobs. The Republicans then pat themselves on the back for creating these jobs. This has been going on for quite some time now.

I'm not even saying this is a bad thing. Jobs are jobs and every single one is priceless but the statistics of simply a result of minimum wadge.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby dun dun dun... chips » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:20 pm

Harness wrote:Chips, I would agree with your statement if our nations moto wasn't "in god we trust". Christianity needs to be removed from government and there no weapons one can use other then words.

it wasnt originally, nor was 'under god' in our pledge of allegiance. 'in god we trust didnt appear on currency until the mid-late 1800s if i remember right, and it wasnt adopted as the official motto until 1956. under god in the pledge of allegiance was added in 1954, with those lyrics being rightfully exempt up until that point.
i agree whole-heartedly with the lack of those words being present in either form. true separation of church and state is what our political goal should be. i think both sides are out of line, but i agree completely with the comic you posted. i do, however, also agree with bacons comment, though its not necessarily related at all.

the middle ground is what i aim for. the church should not be involved in the government, but neither should it be persecuted by them. everyone has the right to their own beliefs, just so long as those beliefs dont impact others.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Jif » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:41 am

Harness wrote:
Jif wrote:Incomes Have Dropped Twice as Much During the 'Recovery' as During the Recession
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/inc ... 50068.html

I'll let that sink in for a minute...



Does this surprise you? Red states are slashing taxes to create minimum wadge jobs. The Republicans then pat themselves on the back for creating these jobs. This has been going on for quite some time now.

I'm not even saying this is a bad thing. Jobs are jobs and every single one is priceless but the statistics of simply a result of minimum wadge.

companies are moving to red states for the cheap labor instead of going overseas... would you rather they do that? Also, these low-wage jobs bring with them high wage jobs.

Texas is the new capital for startups, Technology, Medical research, and engineering....i wouldnt call those low wage. The businesses being attracted to the low tax, low regulation red states vary in every way possible from startups with 5 employees and some seed money to multi-nationals with 100,000 employees around the world. they are providing minimum and low-wage jobs for construction, assembly line, and other workers, but also engineers, doctors, entrepreneurs (the heartbeat of America and the driver of the US economy), and executives. the median income in texas, Tenn, and most other red states has been going up (if you don't include illegal aliens) as jobs have been coming in.

You might hear half truths about the importation of low wage jobs into these states, but in reality, they are saving AMERICAN jobs while also growing their companies and communities. the high wage jobs have already started following, as Austin is now THE place to be to start your new company, work in IT, or setup your medical research or engineering company.

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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Jif » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:52 am

dun dun dun... chips wrote:
Harness wrote:Chips, I would agree with your statement if our nations moto wasn't "in god we trust". Christianity needs to be removed from government and there no weapons one can use other then words.

it wasnt originally, nor was 'under god' in our pledge of allegiance. 'in god we trust didnt appear on currency until the mid-late 1800s if i remember right, and it wasnt adopted as the official motto until 1956. under god in the pledge of allegiance was added in 1954, with those lyrics being rightfully exempt up until that point.
i agree whole-heartedly with the lack of those words being present in either form. true separation of church and state is what our political goal should be. i think both sides are out of line, but i agree completely with the comic you posted. i do, however, also agree with bacons comment, though its not necessarily related at all.

the middle ground is what i aim for. the church should not be involved in the government, but neither should it be persecuted by them. everyone has the right to their own beliefs, just so long as those beliefs dont impact others.

"the separation of church and state" has been incredibly mis-understood over the years. It was never intended to remove all aspects of religion from government. It was designed to prevent religious figures, in official capacity, from taking control of the government, and vice-versa. it was never intended to exclude all moral aspects of religion from the philosophy of the government, so long as the morals and values are in line with the founding doctrines of both establishments (the bible/etc and the Declaration of Ind and Constitution, respectively).

As an atheist, I dont mind our currency saying, 'In God We Trust', or having god injected into the Pledge because Christianity was the basis of the moral belief system of this country. I believe we are a Christian nation, but that doesnt mean the Pope or a group of churches should have official sway/control over the government. That would be a violation of the "Church and State" clause. I do think that the founders were incredibly bright beyond their years- some of the most intelligent, free-thinking, freedom-inspiring humans that have ever lived - and that Judeo-Christian values within the context of our republican government (note the small 'r') has made us the freest, most-charitable nation ever on earth and one that is filled with individuals that believe so strongly in this freedom that they are willing to risk their own lives to help other peoples achieve it.

So no, I dont have a problem with this.

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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Jif » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:31 am

Regarding Syria- "Does Obama know he’s fighting on al-Qa’ida’s side?"

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 86680.html

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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby dun dun dun... chips » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:38 am

Jif wrote:"the separation of church and state" has been incredibly mis-understood over the years. It was never intended to remove all aspects of religion from government. It was designed to prevent religious figures, in official capacity, from taking control of the government, and vice-versa. it was never intended to exclude all moral aspects of religion from the philosophy of the government, so long as the morals and values are in line with the founding doctrines of both establishments (the bible/etc and the Declaration of Ind and Constitution, respectively).

As an atheist, I dont mind our currency saying, 'In God We Trust', or having god injected into the Pledge because Christianity was the basis of the moral belief system of this country. I believe we are a Christian nation, but that doesnt mean the Pope or a group of churches should have official sway/control over the government. That would be a violation of the "Church and State" clause. I do think that the founders were incredibly bright beyond their years- some of the most intelligent, free-thinking, freedom-inspiring humans that have ever lived - and that Judeo-Christian values within the context of our republican government (note the small 'r') has made us the freest, most-charitable nation ever on earth and one that is filled with individuals that believe so strongly in this freedom that they are willing to risk their own lives to help other peoples achieve it.

So no, I dont have a problem with this.

a very solid point. i have no problems with the morals and ethics of a religion influencing the overall politics, since morals and ethics tend to stay embedded in the philosophy area instead of religion. however, i do feel that anything regarding politics should reflect a religious ambiguity, preferably even impartiality. i dont agree with the 'in god we trust' stamp on the currency, since its an implication that anyone that uses it agrees. most people likely dont even notice, but its a subtle thing, and i dont think it stands up well. i dont have any problem with politicians being of a religious orientation, but this country, since it has a religious freedom for its people, should not reflect any bias for one over the other.
i also dont agree with the pledge of allegiance, and i feel its sad that anyone gets persecuted for not saying it, remember that scandal a few years ago? and ive modified it to reflect my belief: 'i pledge allegiance to the constitution of the united states of america, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' flags mean fuckall to me, its a symbol of war, nothing more, and i dont feel i should state that a nation is under one specific god.
you have your beliefs, i have mine, and in the same way that an athiest wouldnt have you say 'not under god' or an indian wouldnt have you say 'under cows' or some shit, i dont want to say 'under god.' to me, the separation of church and state is exactly that, a completely impartial government. politics has nothing to do with religion, and having a political engine having an affiliation, even one that small, is questionable to me.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Harness » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:23 pm

Jif wrote:
dun dun dun... chips wrote:
Harness wrote:Chips, I would agree with your statement if our nations moto wasn't "in god we trust". Christianity needs to be removed from government and there no weapons one can use other then words.

it wasnt originally, nor was 'under god' in our pledge of allegiance. 'in god we trust didnt appear on currency until the mid-late 1800s if i remember right, and it wasnt adopted as the official motto until 1956. under god in the pledge of allegiance was added in 1954, with those lyrics being rightfully exempt up until that point.
i agree whole-heartedly with the lack of those words being present in either form. true separation of church and state is what our political goal should be. i think both sides are out of line, but i agree completely with the comic you posted. i do, however, also agree with bacons comment, though its not necessarily related at all.

the middle ground is what i aim for. the church should not be involved in the government, but neither should it be persecuted by them. everyone has the right to their own beliefs, just so long as those beliefs dont impact others.

"the separation of church and state" has been incredibly mis-understood over the years. It was never intended to remove all aspects of religion from government. It was designed to prevent religious figures, in official capacity, from taking control of the government, and vice-versa. it was never intended to exclude all moral aspects of religion from the philosophy of the government, so long as the morals and values are in line with the founding doctrines of both establishments (the bible/etc and the Declaration of Ind and Constitution, respectively).

As an atheist, I dont mind our currency saying, 'In God We Trust', or having god injected into the Pledge because Christianity was the basis of the moral belief system of this country. I believe we are a Christian nation, but that doesnt mean the Pope or a group of churches should have official sway/control over the government. That would be a violation of the "Church and State" clause. I do think that the founders were incredibly bright beyond their years- some of the most intelligent, free-thinking, freedom-inspiring humans that have ever lived - and that Judeo-Christian values within the context of our republican government (note the small 'r') has made us the freest, most-charitable nation ever on earth and one that is filled with individuals that believe so strongly in this freedom that they are willing to risk their own lives to help other peoples achieve it.

So no, I dont have a problem with this.



I can't even properly place how much I disagree with this statement. Religion did not create these men that founded this country, strong morals always have and always will come from within, not from a two thousand year old book. I give credit to our founders for being free thinkers who envisioned a free world, not slaves to religion creating something their god would be proud of. As a result of my thinking of our free minded founders, I believe god should never have any place in anything government does and forcing people to pledge their allegiance to their god goes against everything the founders stood for. Individuals that believe so strongly in freedom are willing to risk their own lives to help other peoples achieve it could potentially be dying in vein for a Christian nation that wants to insert their god onto those peoples.

It sickens me.
Last edited by Harness on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Darkfoxx » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:46 pm

Harness wrote:Religion did not create these men that founded this country, strong morals always have and always will come from within, not from a two thousand year old book.

Yeah Bumbs! :thumbsup:
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Harness » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:31 pm

Darkfoxx wrote:
Harness wrote:Religion did not create these men that founded this country, strong morals always have and always will come from within, not from a two thousand year old book.

Yeah Bumbs! :thumbsup:



I appreciate the support and all but I would love to hear what you think as apposed to who you agree with.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Darkfoxx » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:26 pm

Harness wrote:I appreciate the support and all but I would love to hear what you think as apposed to who you agree with.

Well, here it goes...

I don't have a very complex view of religion. My view hasn't always been like this, either, but over the years I've whittled it down to what it is now. My only "rule" that I have is this: People should be allowed to worship whatever "god" they want to. I don't care if it's Jesus, Allah, Buddah, nothing, everything, or a piece of white dogshit. You can worship as hard as you want to, I don't care. Til your eyes pop out yo head! But the goddamn second you come to me and start vomiting verbal diarrhea about how your god is this and how your god is that...and why I'm a bad person for doing this and that....THAT'S what I have a problem with!

I can't say that I despise religion being a part of our country's history, because I think it goes deeper than that. Like Scott said, this country was founded on certain beliefs and we can't go back and change that. The problem with this is that people revert back to our history as a talking point. History is meant to be changed and learned from, not copied. It's the same thing as growing up as a Catholic and then adopting atheist ideals. This country was born into a religion but it has since drifted away from that. A small part of that is the leadership, but the larger part is how we've evolved as a country of free thinkers.
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Re: Random Political Thread

Postby Postulio » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:33 pm

Jif wrote:Regarding Syria- "Does Obama know he’s fighting on al-Qa’ida’s side?"

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 86680.html


Russia and China have the most to lose in this situation. They didn't help us during Libya they can certainly take care of this by themselves.
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