New PC build/upgrade

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Darkfoxx
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New PC build/upgrade

Postby Darkfoxx » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:58 pm

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dun dun dun... chips
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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby dun dun dun... chips » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:54 pm

Ehhhh... with the ram, it really makes no difference whatsoever as to whether you pick your cas latency or the overall bandwidth, in the bigger scheme of things you aren't ever going to come to a point where you are going to be taking advantage of either value, you won't ever be using the minimum latency or the maximum speed, unless you really push the rig with something. Much of the time the bottleneck is elsewhere. That's kinda the controversy right now with DDR4: it's a higher bandwidth since it has more contact points, but it's a higher latency as well, effectively nulling out the improvement since they didn't do anything to help it in the chipset. You will see performance increases in the benchmarks, sure, but who the hell ever uses their ram like a benchmark does?
That being said, with ram, for me at least, the lower latency makes more sense for everyday use than a higher speed. That will also drop your voltage a little bit, which means it's less likely for something stupid to happen electrically.
Also also, I have G.Skill kit currently, but I think, unless you are really dead set on those sticks, I would find a corsair kit. I like their new kits and the reliability a bit better. G.skill is nice if you have any intention to do any modification work, but I still think corsair is more reliable.
Also also also, is there a reason you would need 16gb? Bumping down to 8gb would let you get a better cpu, and I'm not sure you'd ever use the extra 8gb...
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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Darkfoxx » Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:31 am

dun dun dun... chips wrote:Also also also, is there a reason you would need 16gb? Bumping down to 8gb would let you get a better cpu, and I'm not sure you'd ever use the extra 8gb...

Nah just trying to future-proof a bit. I can go with 8GB now and add more later if needed...that might be the better route.

Good advice on the rest. I was looking at Corsair as well. Will do a bit more digging...
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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:49 am

Just buy this kit or something similarly-priced: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820231558
$120 +$1 s/h

dun dun dun... chips wrote:Ehhhh... with the ram, it really makes no difference whatsoever as to whether you pick your cas latency or the overall bandwidth, in the bigger scheme of things you aren't ever going to come to a point where you are going to be taking advantage of either value, you won't ever be using the minimum latency or the maximum speed, unless you really push the rig with something. Much of the time the bottleneck is elsewhere.


DING DING DING. Memory specs have been largely irrelevant for 5 years, at least since sticks running the standard voltage for DDR3 was commonplace. Just buy any RAM with heatsinks, a lifetime warranty from a reputable company, and that supports XMP, which will be pretty much anything on newegg from the major brands. Ever since AMD integrated the memory controller onto their CPUs, with Intel following a few years later, memory speeds have been completely detached from the "front-side bus" (which is no longer a thing). Any sticks with lifetime warranty running the standard jdec spec DDR3 1600 will be fine, period, but if higher than 1600mhz for the same price, go for it. Just dont think that spending extra money on lower latencies or higher clock speeds means the PC will perform faster. Thats all marketing.

Intel's XMP is a small chip on the module that tells Intel mobos what latencies and clock speed profiles the memory supports. When used in matched pairs it means you can 1-click a UEFI option to "set and forget" your memory settings. They will never need to be changed again, unless you are going for a custom overclock, which, trust me, you won't once you see how easy it is to OC a modern CPU/mobo/OS (yes OS is now included in that setup)

Here's how I initially OCed my i5 3570k and had it running for a year:
1. booted into UEFI
2. clicked the big button on the initial/basic setup page for "overclock"
2. went into advanced setup and chose XMP memory profile

This OCed CPU from 3.4ghz base to 3.8ghz base (and i believe turbo from 3.8 turbo 4.2+)

Not a massive OC, but the reason you pay the extra ~$20 for the K CPU is so OCing is this easy.

After a year of not even thinking about the overclock I decided i wanted to go higher. Then i realized that b/c UEFI is so awesome Windows-based OC tools were actually relevant. With a UEFI-based mobo (everything made today) and Windows 7+ you can use the mobo MFG's Windows software to do all your OCing in realtime. The Asus tools offer enough to find a decently high, stable clock speed without spending a week doing it. It's complete EZMOAD and took me less than 30 minutes.

You can create complete profiles with fan speed, throttling, CPU clock speed, and some basic voltage adjustments. Stock it had settings to run silently, throttling down fans in realtime based on CPU temp thresholds I set in a line graph, balanced, and full OC. I ended up making a custom profile running 4.2ghz. This was rock solid for a year when i installed Windows 10 and didnt want to initially mix that OC with a beta OS. I booted into UEFI and did the one-click overclock button again, so it's running 3.8ghz for now.

dun dun dun... chips wrote:Also also also, is there a reason you would need 16gb? Bumping down to 8gb would let you get a better cpu, and I'm not sure you'd ever use the extra 8gb...

3 reasons:
1- I'm constantly above 8GB with the standard programs i have start up with Windows (SSDs have made me a HOG with 125 processes at launch), chrome's terrible memory management and 80 tabs open, and a game running.
2- it's cheap
3- That's the best value CPU on the market for gaming/general usage

Buy 16 now. it's not going to get THAT much cheaper and with the proliferation of DDR4 prices will eventually go up. Also if you plan on using XMP profiles (DO IT) you'll want completely matched pairs. The kit u buy now may not exist later. Even memory sold under the same sku today may use different modules or pcb next year under the same sku, meaning there may be issues. Not worth the risk imo. 8GB is fine, tho.

Re: 3- IMO i7's are a waste of money if you're not primarily doing math-based applications like encoding, encryption, or compiling. Hyper-threading is mostly worthless in games and they dont overclock particularly better (and some may actually be worse unless HT is disabled).

-The next logical step up would be the 4790k. It runs the same socket so is supported by the same mobos. v 4690k it offers HT and 2 extra MB cache for $80. Not worth it
-If you're going to go i7, it has to be LGA2011-v3 Haswell. There's a decent price increase for mobos based on this socket and accompanying chipsets, probably about $50 for same model-level board. Additionally the cheapest i7 K CPU is an ivy-Bridge at $100 more than the 4690k and definitely isn't worth it.
-The cheapest i7 Haswell is the 6-core 5820K at $390. This is a monster CPU...but costly.

$390 + additional ~$50 to maintain the same level of motherboard = $220 more than the i5/mobo setup he currently selected.
Not gonna make up 220 by choosing RAM that's at most $130 total. And if he's gonna spend $220 additionally on the i7 Haswell CPU/mobo he'd be better off selling his current gfx card and combining those funds together for a top end card. GFX card is almost always more important than CPU for gaming, assuming a sufficient CPU, and with Mantle already here and DX12 coming soon there will be even less load on processors.

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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:08 am


2 things-
1- I've had my current HS/F, a Thermalright TRU, since 2007 or 2008. I purchased it for a Core2Quad and keep buying replacement brackets to adapt it for newer sockets. It's now cooled 3 quad-core CPUs over 3 different sockets. It still kicks ass, especially since CPU TDPs have come back down in recent years. no idea if it's still common or possible, but you may be able to do the same with your current cooler (or the new one youd be purchasing) to keep it running on modern sockets.

2- I havent paid attention to HSFs for a while but im not sure how much a trust one so cheap if you're looking for a decent overclock.The good overclocking heatsinks are going to cost between $50-80 and there isnt a way around it. The market is flooded with companies and designs and they all use the same metals and the same basic designs and all cost about the same. For that price, though, you're probably better off with a closed loop liquid cooler like the ones from Corsair: http://www.newegg.com/Water-Liquid-Cool ... D-1459-575

Youll want to research them further, but the one I was looking at a few years ago was the H50. I think it's been replaced by the H55, and there's also an H60 now. Dunno what the differences are.

It appears the one you linked is basically a more efficient stock cooler. I'd either keep the intel one and not expect much of an overclock (they're really not bad if you dont OC) or go with something serious and get an easy 800-1000mhz bump using it, which is potentially a 30% increase in clock speed.

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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Darkfoxx » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:31 am

Thanks man, that was quite a bit of information. All good stuff. :thumbsup:

The HSF I linked is basically the same one I've had for years. I'm actually curious to see if they make newer brackets for it. I may just go that route... (Edit: Doesn't look like it)

Gonna keep researching though. Noctua seems to be the way to go. They offer free mounting kit upgrades for newer sockets. For a bit cheaper I can get this by Coolermaster, which is well respected on Tom's HW.

I think I'll go with the i5-4690K and the mobo I linked for sure. And most likely 16GBs of RAM because why not.
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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Fist of the eskimo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:31 pm

And I'm just sitting here buying fencing for cows in the spring.

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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Harness » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:39 am

Fist of the eskimo wrote:And I'm just sitting here buying fencing for cows in the spring.


dem cows doe
I type a bunch of shit then people go fuk themselves

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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Darkfoxx » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:07 pm

Dat new build doe!

Final parts are in the first post of this thread. My only issue so far is with the right angle SATA ports on this mobo. Who thought that was a good idea? Maybe if I had a full ATX case it wouldn't be so bad, but there's so little clearance between the ports and the drive bays right now that's it's very tricky to plug SATA cables in.

Some pics:
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The HSF was a tight fit in an Antec 900. I'll be getting a new case as soon as I can afford it. Shit is packed in there tight, yo!

Currently OC'd to 4.0GHz. :shotty:

Fun fact: I still had 1 PATA hard drive in use on my old mobo :lol:
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Re: New PC build/upgrade

Postby Jif » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:42 am

FINALLY YESSSSSSSSSS


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