Fantasy Football 2016

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Bacon
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Bacon » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:43 pm

Two notes to get the discussion started, more people wanted to change the flex slot to RB/WR/TE compared to those who wanted it to stay the same. Those that wanted it to change only disagreed on the WR vs TE slot. So we should implement the RB/WR/TE slot and then vote again on the WR vs TE slot.

Also yes I think we should give the consolation winner 1st pick this season.

Also also please see my above post which explains how or current scoring system gives less points to players who have more total yards than other players.

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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Harness » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:13 pm

The polls closed. if a vote is inclusive than the matter remains unresolved and stays the same as a result. By revoting, you have taken away the opioions of those who voted to not change anything
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:53 am

Harness wrote:The polls closed. if a vote is inclusive than the matter remains unresolved and stays the same as a result. By revoting, you have taken away the opioions of those who voted to not change anything

But if those who voted to not change anything are in the minority, how does it matter?

Example: 3 people voted for W/R/T and TE, 3 people voted for WR and W/R/T, and 2 voted for no change. Regardless of how you look at the results, 6 people voted to change and 2 people voted for no change. Correct? Therefore, this means we need to discuss the matter further and come to an agreement.
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Bacon » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:54 pm

Fox has it right. More people wanted change. Also I feel as though there wasn't enough discussion on each topic as there should have been. Thus after more discussion we should have another vote.

Also if the 5 people who voted to keep the current bonuses, what is your reasoning for giving players less points for more yards? Seems to me that a player who gets more total yards should always get more points yet our current system doesn't allow for that.

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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:11 pm

Bacon wrote:Also if the 5 people who voted to keep the current bonuses, what is your reasoning for giving players less points for more yards?

Just wanted to reinforce this. Only 2 people I believe voted for "keep current bonus" only and no other choices. I need to pull the individual numbers, but that probably won't be until during or after my meeting in Texas.
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Jif » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:31 pm

6 people voted to change flex to WR/RB/TE but were split when considering the TE slot itself. I agree with bacon. this poll question should have been split into 2: 1) should we change the flex to WR/RB/TE and 2) should we keep the TE slot or convert to WR (or other).

1) Yes to changing flex (and has already been approved)
2) No change. Keep the TE slot as is for this season and evaluate next season. I've had time to think about this more and the more i did the more i didn't feel comfortable making a second position change. This proposed TE change came out of nowhere. Let's let the flex position changes play out next year before we go changing something no one had brought up.


Other thoughts on the league's scoring-
I don't generally believe in change for changes sake, though sometimes I get caught up in some people's excitement. I like the scoring system bumbles created years back (but am glad Justin overrode his dumb-ass ST bias when taking over). That being said we need to make some changes. I like the current yardage scoring but don't think it works well with yardage bonuses.

Our scoring system has a really low floor and a really high ceiling.
A WR without 100 yards or a touchdown gets meaningless points. 90 yards and no TD = 4.5 point. That's low versus standard scoring, but theres nothing wrong with that. However the difference between that player and a WR with 2 TDs and 100+ yards is considerably greater than in standard scoring, and that's the problem. A WR or RB going HAM gets about the same points in both systems, but in our league a WR/RB one without a TD and under the 1st yardage bonus scores half the points versus standard scoring. So our low scores are half of standard scoring's but our high schools are the same. This makes the top handful of players, that consistently put up 1-2 TDs and 100+ yards, relatively better in our league compared to an average player versus standard scoring. Our top players are more valuable and our shitty players are less valuable relative to standard.

I vote either of 2 options. 1) Keep yardage scoring the same and remove all yardage bonuses OR 2) convert fully to standard scoring.

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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Harness » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:09 pm

By putting a bonus in for only receiving yards or only rushing yards it helps level the playing field between RB and WR. Runningback, for a very long time, have scored more than WR's because they regularly both run and catch passes. All the decisions made in bonuses are made with balancing the positions out in mind, not creating a mathematically perfect system. The point total for 3 WR's compared to 2 RB's became more averaged out, when I used to calculate that kind of shit (5 years ago), with a simple bonus system and allowing only 2 RB's to be started. When you create a balance of position in the league, you're increasing the trade value of all players in those respective positions and people who horde RB's, like me, don't necessary have as much of an advantage

The bonus system is what I will call the "Big Game System". If your player has a substantially good game at his position, he should be rewarded with extra points. This is a perfect casual fantasy players system. They can sit at home, watch sportscenter while drinking a beer and be happy their player made it to 100 yards in their respective position. The other type of fantasy player is all about surfing the internet when you should be working and comparing the numbers of every other player in the league and crunching them until their brain melts. The person who researches to this extent still has a significant advantage compared to Joe Blow but, Joe still has a marginally increased chance to what they would normally.

You can't deny the results of the scoring system! Just look at this season alone. The top players played in the championship game, there is no denying this.... but at the same time, Joe "fucking" Blow still had a chance at the top spot. Argue all you want about squeezing points out of the league. When it comes down to it, the point system makes it fun for all types of people and all walks of life and should not be changed.
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Bacon
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Bacon » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:51 am

I agree that sometimes it's good to try and balance out points between players. Like you said, it helps with trade values and drafting values. I have some concerns with the system though and maybe you can address them.

1. 100 yards is definitely a good day but I would argue that so is 99 yards. With our current scoring system, scores for three guys in a week might be: 98 yards - 4.9, 99 - 4.95, 100 - 6. The yardage difference between them is very insignificant but the points they score is not.
2. There are times when a player would actually get less points for having more total yards than another player. This just seems really counter intuitive. Example: Player A - 60 rushing yards, 30 receiving yards - 4.5 points (90 total yards). Player B - 80 rushing yards - 5 points (10 yards less but a whole point more)
3a. The point bonus system may have evolved over the years but right now it seems to favor RB over WR. RB gets their first extra point earlier (75 yards) than the WR (100 yards) so it's easier for RB to get the extra point. I get that it might have balanced them in the past but it doesn't anymore it would seem.
3b. Also I don't think this a very good way to balance RB/WR. These extra points tend to make the good players better and the mediocre/bad players blah. PPR/.5 PPR were designed to balance RB/WR as it mainly raises the stock of all WR instead of just good players. That being said, I am not advocating for PPR. With how small our league is, I don't think there is a need to PPR. There are enough good players in the league that if you draft well and pay attention that your team will be fine.

I don't understand this whole casual thing though. Are we a casual league? I thought we were a step up from that. Anyways I don't have any statistics but I think it's fair to say that the majority of people who play FF on Yahoo/ESPN/NFL are casual players. The default scoring system in most leagues would be standard scoring not this point bonus thing. Seems to me that casual scoring system then is standard scoring. This bonus system doesn't improve the capabilities of the casual, it just causes them to hope that their guy gets 100 yards not 99 yards so they can get that extra point.

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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:04 pm

Bacon wrote:I don't understand this whole casual thing though. Are we a casual league? I thought we were a step up from that.

I'm going to jump in and say that we are not causal, since we are a pay league.
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:57 pm

Also, I found this which may help with math..and figures, and stuff: http://www.unconventionalstats.com/stat ... his-season
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:02 pm

Final Poll! https://goo.gl/forms/8m7fH0TI75WfvFU23

It contains only the questions that remained unresolved. I've cleaned up the options and condensed everything, so it should be really quick and we'll know where everyone stands. My vote will only be used in a tiebreaker situation.

Voting will be on:
- Draft Pick Trading
- Flex Slot
- Yard Bonuses

These items have been resolved:
- Punishment for starting inactives/empty slots for multiple weeks. I'll formulate something official, because in the end, this is my decision. I was just looking for suggestions
- Consolation winner draft pick - Now that this is official, does it go into effect immediately? i.e. Tools won consolation, does he get 1st pick in 2017? yes, this will go into effect in the 2017 season
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:19 pm

Voting is done...we're still evenly split on 2 out of 3 things. Draft Pick Trading and the Flex Slot will not be changing next season. We can try to revisit both items next season.

The only thing we can mostly agree on is changing to standard scoring. Standard scoring will be implemented next season. This means 10 yards = 1 point, no bonuses.

Voting Numbers:

Draft Pick Trading
Enable draft pick trading (42.9%)
No change (57.1%)

If I were to vote, it would be to enable draft pick trading, so then there's a 50-50 split. Just curious, why don't people like draft pick trading? You don't have to participate in it if you don't want to...it's only in the live draft. More than 50% of people indicated that they would like to see draft pick trading when asked in the week 5 poll. Why the change of heart?

Flex Slot
WR, WR, RB, RB, Flex (RB/WR/TE),TE - Change to a true Flex slot (42.9%)
WR, WR, RB, RB, Flex (WR/TE), TE -No change, current setting (57.1%)

Again, if I were to vote I would select "Change to a true Flex slot", thus making the vote 50-50.

Scoring Changes
No Change (28.57%)
Change to Standard Scoring (71.43%)

I would have voted to change to standard scoring, thus putting the vote at 75-25.

Summary of changes for the 2017 season:
  • Change to Standard Scoring (10yds = 1 pt, no bonuses) *Note that passing yds will go to standard settings: 25yds = 1 pt, no bonus
  • Trade processing time changed to 2 days
  • Consolation Bracket winner gets 1st draft pick
  • Remove Roster Lock for Consolation Bracket (with the stipulation that waiver priorities will be manually edited so that championship teams have first pick over consolation teams)
  • Direct IR slot adds will be allowed
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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Sonic » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:24 pm

I thought we voted the following:

7th final standing = 1st draft pick (winner of consolidation)
8th = 2nd
9th = 3rd
10th = 4th
6th = 5th
5th = 6th
4th = 7th
3rd = 8th
2nd = 9th
1st = Last

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Re: Fantasy Football 2016

Postby Darkfoxx » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:25 am

Sonic wrote:I thought we voted the following:

7th final standing = 1st draft pick (winner of consolidation)
8th = 2nd
9th = 3rd
10th = 4th
6th = 5th
5th = 6th
4th = 7th
3rd = 8th
2nd = 9th
1st = Last

That's exactly what we voted for. What are you taking about?
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